Podcast Episode 6: Overcoming Fear - Getting to The Root Cause of Your Fear (Live Coaching Session with Sheila Part 2)
Today Natasha shares with you a follow up coaching session she had with one of her members, Sheila. Sheila still has some things holding her back, and we dig deep today to find out what the root cause of her fear is (hint: it's not of falling off her horse - it's much deeper than that!)
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Okay, Sheila, what's going on? How was your ride?
I don't know why I feel very nervous right now. Wow...
New Speaker (00:11):
Why are you choosing that?
I don't know. I don't know. Um, I don't know. Maybe because I was hoping, I was hoping that I would be able to say I have no more fear. Everything is perfect... But I still have fear, so I kind of feel like I let you down.
It's got nothing to do with me Sheila. This is all on you. It's all good. So what's going on? So you took your circle - did your circle follow you to the horse?
Yes, I took my circle. Um, I felt a lot better, uh, going down there, going to the ranch because I, I want to go, but I always feel a lot of fear and dread.
New Speaker (00:58):
You used to feel a lot of fear and dread, and you used to choose to feel a lot of fear and dread.
Yes. Um, this time I felt more, I was excited. I couldn't wait to go. Um, and I felt a lot calmer on my horse. I felt I really more relaxed. Um, yeah, so that was good. That was good. Uh, I do, you know, but the fear, I was going down there telling myself, because I don't have a trainer right now or anything, I'm not taking any lessons right now. So I just go down and I get on my horse and I, and I just kind of ride around the ranch and try to go places that I'm afraid of going. So I had this big, I picture in my head of how I was going to go here and go there and do this, but that didn't work out so well. I went pretty much the same places that I always go. Yesterday I did go a few little places that I didn't want to go to before. So that was good. So that was good. So there was, you know, but I, I, when I think of going somewhere that I'm scared to go, I feel like I'm paralyzed.
New Speaker (02:26):
Okay. So how do you know that you're scared to go?
Because my mind is telling me, my mind is, is, is I just conjure up catastrophes in my head.
New Speaker (02:49):
Okay. Tell me what the catastrophe looks like.
A catastrophe? Yeah. I don't know if it's so much looks like anything, but feels...
Do you feel in your head?
I think I do. I mean, I, I guess I get nervous in my stomach, kind of sick to my stomach, kind of sick, but it feels like it's all in my head. Like I feel like my head, like I'm, I'm, I'm just like stopped, you know? Like my head is blocked. I'm paralyzed.
So tell me how to do that. Tell me how to block in my head. If it's no pictures, if it's no, nothing that you see, but you feel it, but you don't feel in your head, you feel in your stomach. So tell me how you do it in your head. I'm so curious
I don't think it's anything that I do. It just happens to me. I think I'm a really bad case.
No, no, okay. What's this?
What does it do to you?
Okay. So, um, what, what, give me an example of something that you scared to go in the arena. Oh, sorry. Not in the arena. Tell me, you said there's places that you'll find to go and you don't feel fear riding there, but you have fear riding in a certain spot.
Okay. Even in the arena, I'm afraid to go to the far side of the arena because I feel like when we start getting towards the end, there was a road, there where cars go. I feel like when we start getting towards the end that my horse gets kind of spooked going down to the end. So I'm thinking that he's going to get spooked. She, I'm thinking that she's going to get spooked and then I start getting nervous that she, that I'm expecting a spook. Okay. So that's in the arena and then...
Stop, stop. Just go with that one.
Just think about what you just said.
Okay. I'm expecting that she's going to get spooked and so...
Stop. Tell me the third word you said.
I'm expecting. Expecting. Yeah. And it happens.
Well, I don't know what happens - probably, but if you are expecting something, do you think that means that you think it could happen? Not even could happen, but most likely will happen.
Yeah. Uh huh. Yeah.
So you need to manage your expectations, right?
New Speaker (06:11):
Do you go to that place in the arena?
I haven't been. I did. I tried to yesterday. I tried to yesterday I got a little farther than...
Okay, so here's a pen. Take. Teach me how I try to pick up the pen.
Okay. Put your hand, direct your hand towards the pen. Direct your hand towards the pen and then put your fingers over the pen and then clasp your fingers around the pen and then pick it up.
No, you didn't teach me how to try to pick up the pen. You taught me how to pick up.
So to try to pick up the pen. How much energy? I really want to pick up the pen. I should pick up the pen. I'm expecting the pen to attack me when I do pick up the pen. Try, try, try. Just pick up the pen. So either go to that place in the arena and deal with what happens when you go to that place in the arena or don't go to that place in the arena. Where else in your life do you not make decisions?
Oh, Oh, I have a hard time making decisions.
Of course you do. To me that needs to be your next coaching session. You now don't have a problem with fear. You have a problem with making decisions. You have a problem with, with, with trying to do things. Don't try it. Do you try and breathe?
No I just breathe!
New Speaker (08:06):
And thank God you don't need to make a decision to breathe or not because then we might be paralyzed and not know what decisions to make and should we breathe now or should we breathe later and how big should we breathe...and it's all too confusing and too hard... and I'm going to run out of oxygen!
Yes. I have a hard time making decisions and if I make one I think I should have done something else. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
New Speaker (08:33):
I mean, I would say then your yellow circle is nowhere to be seen. Your yellow call is nowhere to be seen.
Um, I think I forgot about it.
New Speaker (08:49):
Yeah, because in your yellow circle, you had confidence. You can do anything. You're smart, you have wisdom, everything is okay. You don't make decisions because you doubt that you will make the right one.
Yup. That is me. Yes.
New Speaker (09:09):
Have you made a wrong decision in the past?
Okay. Um, not that I can remember. Not that well. Yeah. Oh yeah. My first husband was a wrong decision.
New Speaker (09:40):
Wow. Okay. So when you make a wrong decision, so does your brain go, it's very, things turn out very bad when I make a wrong decision.
Oh yeah. My first husband was the wrong decision. My moving out of my house with him was a wrong decision. Like giving up my guitar lessons was, yes.
New Speaker (09:59):
Wow. You've got this whole evidence in this whole bank of, Hey brain, can you tell me all the time I've made the wrong decisions? And it goes, yeah, there were these big things and they cause to things to go bad, it's really bad and things never got back to normal or things, things you know, only went worse after you made the wrong decision. So don't make the wrong decision. Have you got any evidence of, you've just gone to the milk bar and you need to make a decision about the chocolate ice cream or the vanilla ice cream? Have you ever made, have you ever had to make a decision like that?
New Speaker (10:42):
Have you ever made the wrong one?
Well probably, maybe I got one that I didn't really like and I thought I should've gotten the other one.
Right. And did you get burned at the stake? Did you get, did you burst into a ball of flames?
How many decistions do you think you make a day?
Wow. A lot.
New Speaker (11:14):
How many do you think are right?
How could I, I don't know. How can I tell? I mean, they're just not, they're not right or wrong.
New Speaker (11:36):
Oh, I am so glad you agree. There's no right or wrong, so you've never made a wrong decision...
Yeah, I've made a wrong decision.
New Speaker (11:47):
Which is it? There's no right or wrong or you've made wrong ones?
New Speaker (11:55):
It's your world. It's your rules. You tell me or do you live in a world where you can't win? Where the rules change daily. As long as it means that you're wrong, you've made the wrong choice and you can't trust yourself and you have stacked the odds so that you can actually never win at this game.
Oh, that sounds kind of logical... not totally, but it sounds kind of logical.
New Speaker (12:26):
You tell me. Like I know the rules I set for my game so I can win. But most people set the rules like their rules of how their world works and when they are and when they get to feel love and when they get to feel joy and when they get to feel confidence is this interweb of if a equals B plus C plus X plus the moon in Venus and the sun sets this way and it's on the first of the month and it and, and, and you know, a feather dropped from this bird. Then I get to feel fun, love, joy and confidence. It's like, Whoa,
My brain is so frazzled right now. I don't even know how to answer you!
New Speaker (13:14):
What you need to do. I mean, as you said, your experience was better, but it wasn't exactly how you wanted it to be, but you have to accept the responsibility that you drive your own bus. Things don't happen to you. Things don't just appear, you create every single bit of them either with the rules, well, either with your emotions or either with, you know what you're doing in your brain, which is still quite, can't quite tell me what you do. You can't articulate what you do in your brain and that's the key. I can't therefore change what you do in your brain if you're not aware of what you do.
Okay. Can I think about, okay, if I'm sitting on my horse, I'm looking over there and I want to go over there, but I'm afraid to go over there...
New Speaker (14:12):
But stop. I can't accept the presupposition of I'm afraid to go over there. How do you know that?
Okay. I know that because this panic comes over me.
New Speaker (14:44):
Yeah, but the panic doesn't just happen. I can't just go panic! I can't entice that emotion into you right now. There is a trigger that sets off the panic and you've got to figure out what that trigger is. It's either something you tell yourself something, you see something you hear there are the trigger, because we can only interpret our world in five ways. See, hear, feel, smell, taste. I'm assuming you're not tasting anything. I don't assume you're riding a horse, eating a cookie, going yum chocolate. Now I feel panic. So taste's out. I don't assume you're sniffing something and going horse poo - now I feel panic. So it's either something you see, something you tell yourself, or something you hear. And when it's something you see, it's either something you see physically with your eyes or something you show yourself.
Okay. So I show myself, I show myself a catastrophe.
New Speaker (15:55):
Tell me what that looks like.
Yeah. Okay. It looks like, my horse starts running or starts. Yeah, my horse starts running and I can't control it.
Okay. Or are you looking at yourself riding the horse in the picture? Are you seeing it like a movie or are you riding it as you're picturing this horse running away?
I'm seeing the picture yet, I am watching a movie. Yeah.
Okay. And is it in color or black and white?
It's in color. Right.
And frame or panoramic.
I think it's panoramic.
Okay. Um, so tell me again what's happening in the picture. Describe it in detail.
Okay. My, my horse is okay. My horse is having a fit. He wants to run away. He just like, yeah, he's just like, runs, he just runs and, and just, you know, just, I can't control him yeah, it was, it was just kind of like that. He's just runs and scoots off, or you know, just, you know, boom. Like an unexpected, just boom.
Do you fall off? Does he end up stopping? How does it end?
Oh, well I fall off.
Okay. And do you die? Do you get hurt?
I get hurt. Yeah.
How badly? Like what happens?
I don't know if I get that far.
So does it just loop and go back to, so are you're seeing a catastrophe and the horse is galloping away? My horse is galloping away. I can't stop him. I fall off. You said I don't think it gets that far to know if you're injured or not. So what does it loop back to the start of horse is spooking and horse galloping off and you fall off? Is it just a replay? Like sometimes you get videos that are just 10 seconds long and they just replay? Is that what you've got going on?
Yeah, it's just replays.
New Speaker (18:55):
So you never get hurt in the replay. Like you don't know if you do or not. You can't say that you don't, but you can't say that you definitely do. You don't know if you get hurt in this particular movie.
Yeah. I don't know.
New Speaker (19:20):
You don't fear falling off or getting hurt. So you fear what? What is, what is the thing that's looping? Do you know what you're really scared of?
I'm scared. I want to say that I'm scared of the unexpectedness.
New Speaker (19:41):
Yeah. What about the unexpected is it that scares you? What would that mean?
I'm scared of the, just the, the speed. I'm scared of the speed.
New Speaker (19:58):
Hmm. And um, yes, but why speed scare you? If I take the brakes away and you can't stop it. What does that mean?
Well, that I'll fall off, that I have no control. I have no control.
New Speaker (20:21):
Sounds like your life that you don't like to be out of control, that you would be a little bit, not just in your riding, but in everything.
Yeah. Well I feel, I feel like there's so many areas of my life where I don't have control.
New Speaker (20:43):
So you want control in this area, right?
Tell me an area where you don't have control. Do you like not being in control.
Well, no, I mean, I, I guess I do.I think it's more the, I don't know, the decisions making the decisions. I don't know. I felt in the past that I haven't had control over things. I think I have more now than my life.
Yes, but even the need for control. What's that about? Think about why you would want or not want control. Think about, I don't make decisions cause I don't want to make the wrong decision. What's all of that about if you were to guess
That I, uh, I wouldn't like... I wouldn't, that I wouldn't like what, what is happening to me.
New Speaker (22:20):
If you didn't like what was happening to you what would that mean?
I would be, I wouldn't be happy.
And if you weren't happy, what would that mean? Why is not being happy a bad thing?
Because it feels it doesn't feel good.
And why is not feeling good a bad thing. How is that a problem?
Well, I don't know. I mean it's, sometimes you just feel bad and you're not like, I haven't felt bad. You get it. I get over it.
And how often do you allow yourself to feel truly happy and truly free?
Not very often. Well, I don't know. I mean, I do things that make me happy. It's not like I'm miserable all the time. I mean, I have things that make me happy.
Is riding one of them?
Not right now. I have felt it.
New Speaker (24:38):
Why do you block yourself?
Why do I block myself? Maybe I, maybe I don't, I want to say why should I be happy? But I, I didn't really think that I felt like that...
New Speaker (25:35):
But that's what came out. Who am I to be happy?
That's what, that's what came up. But I really didn't think that I felt like that about myself. Yep. That's, that's what came up.
Yeah. Thank you for sharing and thank you for being open. Why do you think it came up?
I don't know. I, cause now I feel like crying...
This is the real you saying who are you to be happy? You are stopping yourself. You are stopping yourself from being this yellow circle of going out and having this love, this confidence, this, everything's okay. This wisdom, the abilities. I can do it. So I gave you that gift last session and you went great. And then the next part of you went no no no no no - back in there and now you're going that that can't be true. That can't be it. But I just heard it. You're doing so good.
You're making me cry.
No, that's ok, that's what I do.
But yeah, I, it's true though. I know there's so many things that I, that I could have done that I wanted to do so badly, but I stopped myself. I know, I know that there were things I could have been, I went to, things I went to school for that I really wanted to do. Um, and I stopped myself. You know, that I, and I have so many regrets about that because I, I went to school too. I wanted to be a therapist. I got a job was doing my my hours and I couldn't do the job. I was in so much anxiety about doing the job that I actually got fired. And then I started a life coach, um, class life coach course, and I was so enthusiastic about, paid a lot of money for it. And when it was almost over and I had to do some project, I sorry, I have a full time job. I'm too busy. I can't do this. And I quit. So, and people have told me, you would have been so good, you, you could. People tell me that. And I, I stopped myself from doing what I want to do. It's true, and my husband tells me that. He says, you're amazing. You can do this. You can do that. You could do this and, and, and you don't think you can do anything. And I stopped myself from doing these things. It's true. I don't know why, but I don't. Oh God, now I'm so embarrassed.
Oh no, don't, don't be embarrassed, don't even think about anyone else. I'm here. I've got you. What else does it fucking cost you? Get angry! What else?
You know, like I say, I really wanted to do this. I wanted to be a therapist. I really wanted to, you know, and then I just like, like, like I said, I'm just, I just get, I get in so much anxiety. I was in so much anxiety at this job because I kept telling my supervisor, I mean anxiety... Instead of helping me. She, you know, told my boss and they fired me. But it's like, whenever I think I'm just there. You know, I make excuses. Like when I made excuses, like I couldn't, I with the life coaching school class. We had to get on the phone and coach each other over the phone and I just, I was paralyzed again. Like, like when I'm on my horse and I want to go over there, I get paralyzed in my head. I can't do it. And so that's how I, so I, I couldn't do it. I didn't want to have to get on that phone and coach, you know, of coaching. I didn't want to do it. I couldn't, I was paralyzed. I couldn't do it. So I said, I can't, you know, I'm working full time. I'm tired. I don't want to have to come home and talk on the phone and then I just quit, you know? And that's what I do up my horse. I want to go over there, but I'm paralyzed. I can't make the decision to go over there. And so I just quit!
You've lived with this, I know we talked about your age. Let's just say, you know, 40 years, you know you've lived with this for 40 years. Are you fucking sick of it, are you ready to get rid of it?
Oh I am !! I just like, I just like, I don't know why I hear. I hear my mother's... I hate blame the things on my mother because I loved my mother. But you know, when I first started taking horseback riding lessons, she was so freaked out. She, she tried to stop me, talk to me against it. She told my ass, my brother to talk me out of it. Cause I'm really close with my brother. My mother was a very fearful person and I feel like, you know, she brought it to me and my brother.
It's called a tribal cycle and I'd love to know what her mother was like. Like this could have been passed down from generation to generation to generation. We are all victims of victims. And it's only until we make the conscious decision to do it differently.
Yes. And I really have been trying, I mean I really have. I, you know, I've read so many books about fear, you know, and try to take the advice and you know, to, you know, on the horse,
You've got to see that you have never ever had a fear problem. Sorry, I shouldn't say a fear problem. Do you know what you're actually terrified off has nothing to do with a spooky corner or being out of control? Do you know what you're actually terrified of?
Making a decision?
Yep. But even if you made the decision, yes. That's part, that's it. That's a symptom of what you're scared of. That's why you don't make decisions. But what are you actually scared of?
It'll be the wrong one. Or somebody will tell me it's the wrong one.
Yes. But why? They're again symptoms of what actually scared of. Being scared of what if I get it wrong. And what if people say it's wrong and what if I fuck it up? Or what if it goes wrong? But what is, what is all of that scared off? Because Sheila, you tell me if you got it right and everything went right and everything went fabulous and you were the best life coach in the goddamn fucking world and you were the best therapist in the whole damn fucking world and you were the best rider and you just went wherever the fuck you want or whatever the fuck you wanted. What the fuck was would that mean? You tell me, what would that be?
I'm good. Yeah, I'm good. I'm afraid of being good.
It would appear so. But every time you're give you an opportunity to shine, to fucking rock, to fricking step up. You run like the fucking hills. You've got me fired up now.
But I did go to school. I did graduate. I in my forties I went back to school, I graduated, I got two master's degrees.
Okay, but you said you were born on this planet to maybe be a therapist. You were maybe born. You resonated with that so strongly. I don't make the rules Sheila, you do. You have run from things that are important to you that probably you could be very good at. Everyone can go and get a masters. But when you're heart says this is important, this is special, this means something for some reason in your world that means run.
Yeah. I, I'm a good swimmer too. I joined a gym to go to swim and I don't ever go. I don't go because I just think, Oh I don't wanna put my bathing suit on...
Oh, we're very, very smart with our excuses. Yeah.
Yeah. It's just too much trouble. I, that's another thing is that I see things are just too much, too much trouble. So I don't, you know, and when I, when I do what I love it. Oh it's too much trouble.
So you're like, you're sitting on the couch cause that's not much trouble. Right? Yeah. Basically you've got this great system. Anytime you feel yourself making an excuse, it's too much trouble. It's too hard. I don't really want that. That probably makes you fucking do.
That's I'm fucking good at it. Yeah. Yeah. I mean I could, I could go down to the ranch to open my tack shed, stand in front of the tack shed and stare in there trying to decide whether I should get my saddle out and I can stare at it. I can stand there and stare for 10 minutes cause I can't decide whether I should, you know. And then I say, Oh it's late anyway. Uh, you know, I should, you know, I got to go shopping or you know,
So we started off the session thinking do we need to do a session around decision making? But no, the non decision making is because as you've just shared, you don't follow through. You don't fight, you don't go for what you really want. And that is an ingrained thing that you weren't a million years ago when you were a baby. When you really want something, you don't get to have it.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
You can fuck that belief right off - you can keep it if you want. But look where it's gotten you in so far. If you're living your ideal life, then you keep it. But if you're, if you go no because of that, I missed out on this and I lost this and this didn't happen. How I want it, where you just make the decision now. That is not my thing anymore. That's not my jam.
Yeah. Yeah. There were things I, yeah, there were things going up I really wanted, but I got discouraged from them. Yeah.
When we are babies. When we're children, our parents or our teachers or the big people, they're magical big people. We don't question them. We don't think we didn't have the psychology or the awareness to go, you know what? I think they're having a bad day and they didn't mean what they said to me. Everything goes in unfiltered as absolute truth. And then we spend the rest of our lives going huh - that's not true. That doesn't serve, that's fucked me up. Welcome to taking responsibility and adulthood and you know, I can know all this stuff and I can still see my kids, you know, cause I'm not perfect. I'm a human and there's going to be times where mommy's had a really bad day or mommy's stressed and mommy's tired, or mommy makes the, it's just this one wrong thing innocuously you know, like even like go to bed, a child can go, I'm worthless, I'm stupid. I'm nothing because my parents don't want to spend time with me and they want me to go to bed. You can't. I've given up trying to make sure I don't make a mistake because anything - you got to work. My parents preferred to work than to look after me. So, not to try and make sure that never happens. As I said, we're all victims of victims and it's nothing to do. I adore my parents. You adore your parents. They did the best they could with what they knew. Oh and innocuous things, like I say to my mum that I just figured out, blah, blah, blah. And she will be like Oh my God, I didn't, I, that was never my intention. I didn't want you to think that. I said, I know. I can't believe that that's even what you made it mean!
So many things. So many things. When I that I've told my mother, you know, if I tell her I just bought a washer and dryer, she's, she said to me, why did you do that? They break down and then they have to be fixed and then I told her, I bought a couch one time. How much did she says, how much did you pay for it? I said, a hundred bucks. It was cheap. You had to pay a hundred bucks. I said, mom, do you know how much couches costs nowadays? When I got a dog, she knew I wanted to get a dog my whole life. I never had a dog. When I got a dog she said, why did you do that? They get sick and you have to take them to the vet.
She's a bundle of fun. Your mom!!
But now, you'll have this communication with her up here giggling. I giggle. I just go ok, that's cool ok. But you won't be really entrenched in it going, is mum judging me or his mum saying that I've done the wrong thing or he's, no, no, no, no. That's her story and her projections and her stuff. And you know, you're starting to understand who you really are and what you're really capable of. And that's got nothing to do with anything or anyone else.
So go take that yellow ring. Give yourself the permission. So last session I gave you the tool to use and then we found out that you didn't allow yourself to use the tool. Now allow yourself to you to really lean into that yellow ring. That is where your confidence is, that is where you allow yourself to shine. That ring also terrifies you. Yeah. So you have to just stop practicing and you can practice, you know, step into your ring with your partner. If you trust him and he's, you know, he's not gonna, you know, it's a safe place. Step into it. Okay. That's your homework. Everyone on the comments just thinks you're amazing. They're just saying it's so generous of Sheila. Thank you, Sheila. Sheila, everyone's loving you. Absolutely amazing.
Oh, I was just gonna thank you. Thank you so much. I so appreciate you for this.
Thank you for being honest. We almost didn't get there because you came up with who are you to be happy? And you almost didn't actually verbalize it because you said that's actually not true, but you've trusted yourself. You, you stepped into your yellow ring there. You shared with me what was actually the essence and um, yeah, good job. I'm really proud of you, you are n exceptional human being. Thank you