Podcast Episode 20: The Reasons Behind Your Fears Of Riding - Live Coaching

In this podcast, Natasha does a live fearless coaching session with Katie. Katie has been struggling with the fear of riding one of her horses. When Natasha gets to the real reason behind this fear and that it has nothing to do with riding it all, the results will shock you.

If you have any suggestions for future podcast content, people you would like Natasha to interview or if you are an equestrian that loves our message and would be interested in being interviewed, contact the team at support@yourridingsuccess.com 

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Full Transcript Expand to full transcript

Natasha (00:00):

Well, cool. Cool. How are we?

Katie (00:03):

Brilliant. Thank you. How are you?

Natasha (00:05):

I'm good. What time is it over in? It's England. Isn't it?

Katie (00:10):

English six. O'clock in the morning. So it'smorning. Yep.

Natasha (00:15):

Okay. Awesome. Let me just turn my, um, okay, so Katie, is that what you want me to?

Katie (00:26):

Yes. Yep. Perfect.

Natasha (00:28):

No, in particular, some people go, yeah. Oh no. I'm going to hide it when you use that part of my name or beautiful. Cool. Why are we having this conversation? What's going on?

Katie (00:40):

So everything on the program, Tash makes 100% sense. I love it. It's logical. It works, I still can't work it out for me. I have no idea why I'm frightened. I keep, I go deeper. I go lighter. I think about it. I sit with it. It just, I've got no idea. I've got three horses that I ride. Two of them. I've fallen off the heap of times and I mean, they're easy, but they're hotter. I'm not frightened of them. I've got a young horse who is the easiest, nicest, most beautiful, brilliant horse. Absolutely terrified to ride him. And I've got no idea why.

Natasha (01:22):

Cool. No worries. So when did you join the program?

Katie (01:27):

Well, what about two months ago? I think.

Natasha (01:30):

Yep. And have you gone through the whole thing?

Katie (01:32):

Gone through the whole thing and from the beginning? Because it was still sitting with me then I didn't actually know what I was frightened of.

Natasha (01:41):

Yeah. Yeah. Okay. All right. Um, so where did you get to when you were doing the exercises? Did you, did you just were stuck there, but there was no way on that?

Katie (01:54):

No, no, no. So I've tried all of them. Um, and like I say, I love all of them, you know, the, the anchoring, I sound quite competent person in other areas of my life, you know? So that, that was a good one. And I can remember times when, you know, have been confident that it just, it doesn't, it doesn't stick with me if I'm on it, you know, I get that and I have the mindset and I've got the character and I've got everything and I get on the horse. And if I'm honest, he doesn't even do anything. And I just get this absolute funny tummy that like, can't turn into excitement even though, you know, I know that it is exactly the same. Exactly.

Natasha (02:34):

So, um, and it's only with this horse, not on the others it's on just this one.

Katie (02:38):

Yep. Yep. Yep.

Natasha (02:40):

Okay. Um, so how do you know that it's time to get frightened? Is it before you put your foot in the stirrup? Is it when you saddle him? When is it time to get frightened.

Katie (02:55):

Time to get frightened? So what he does is be working for 10, 15 minutes and his resistance to doing what we're asking him is to, is to kind of back off my leg, come right up underneath me, drop the contact and like stop going forwards, but start going on the spot. He's never done anything after that, but that's that I then think, okay, something's going to happen now.

Natasha (03:22):

Okay. So are you feeling up until that point? Complete confidence.

Katie (03:27):

90% confidence.

Natasha (03:29):

Okay. So if he never stopped, backed off and stopped and went behind your leg, you would not need to talk to me like you feel? No. Okay. So, so how do you know when it's time to get frightened? How do you, when does it start?

Katie (03:48):

I guess when I'm riding him, like I said, I'm 90% positive. I'm not a hundred percent and that's, that's not good enough. You know, I was always 110% confident for years and years and years. And I don't know what changed that. So I guess it's when I get on him, if we're honest.

Natasha (04:05):

Okay. But you do know, so sorry. Do you don't know what changed that, but do you know when it changed?

Katie (04:13):


Natasha (04:16):

Yes you do, You have to, but you have to know. Is it like it was, it was there. And was it there last Christmas?

Katie (04:23):


Natasha (04:24):

Okay. Was it there the Christmas before?

Katie (04:31):

I'd say no, I wasn't riding him then. So I'd say no.

Natasha (04:36):

yep. Okay. Um, so you're 110% confident, two Christmases ago on every horse that you ride at that point. And then tell me when you've got this horse.

Katie (04:50):

So we bred him and I broke him in last summer.

Natasha (04:56):

Okay. And the very first time that you sat on him, well, how were you feeling?

Katie (05:02):

Nervous. Really nervous.

Natasha (05:04):

Okay. So you knew the, what about working with him? Breaking him in? Were you nervous?

Katie (05:10):

No, not at all.

Natasha (05:11):

Okay. So everything's hunky Dory. So two Christmases ago, you don't have this, then come summer, you start breaking in this horse. You don't have this, you're breaking him in. Everything's fine. And it's the very first ride that you have to do? You're nervous.

Katie (05:26):


Natasha (05:27):

Okay. And is that the same field? How's that feeling? Um, gotten bigger, less to, to now, like, did it go up and now it's on the way down again? Has it just stayed the same?

Katie (05:43):

I think it's the same overall, depending on what he's doing, I'm fine because it's easy and there's no wind. You say there's none of these things that we make stories about and then something happens and then I just get that.

Natasha (06:00):

Okay. And, um, did he ever do anything, have you ever fallen off him?

Katie (06:05):


Natasha (06:05):

Yep. Great. Okay. Um, and I think back to that time, when you first started breaking him in, had you read an article that young horses were dangerous? Had you seen someone else, um, have an accident? Had you, um, heard something that's.

Katie (06:23):

no, I mean, I spent 10 years breaking in resources, you know, so I'm gonna know all about it and I hadn't read anything or seen anything different.

Natasha (06:34):

What colour is he?

Katie (06:38):

Bay, Dark Bay.

Natasha (06:38):

What colour are your others?

Katie (06:38):

One is chestnut and one is bay

Natasha (06:42):

Okay, I'm so. It, I guess it really doesn't even matter. I shouldn't have even asked the question why I'm like trying to pinpoint why your brain has coded that this horse is dangerous, but your brain has coded this horse is dangerous and you don't need to figure out why.

Katie (07:00):

Okay. That's a relief.

Natasha (07:03):

Because the fact is it definitely does. Like anytime I come around it, I'm checking. You know? Does it happen at this time? Does it happen? Yeah, pretty much like, like your brain. Soif I what's the horse's name?

Katie (07:14):


Natasha (07:14):


Katie (07:16):

Yup. Yup.

Natasha (07:16):

So if I say the word Jasper, what word comes to mind?

Katie (07:22):

Love, I love him so much.

Natasha (07:22):

what else?

Katie (07:28):

Power he is very powerful.

Natasha (07:32):

Um, do you think he's more powerful than any other horse you've riden?

Katie (07:35):

Yeah, definitely.

Natasha (07:37):

And is power a scary thing?

Katie (07:40):

No. I think if you can, if you have it and you can contain it, it's amazing.

Natasha (07:45):

Yep. Okay. Um, okay. So I've asked you three times. What does Jasper mean? And none of those things are anything to be scared of?

Katie (07:56):


Natasha (07:57):

So do you have, so normally, like if I say the word chocolate cake, what do you say?

Katie (08:05):

honestly I don't like it. So yuck.

Natasha (08:07):

No, that's fine. Chocolate cake. You don't like it. Tell me something you do like,

Katie (08:12):

um, Crisps.

Natasha (08:17):

Yep. So crisps is, I like it. Yeah. So if I, um, come over to your house and I have crisps and chocolate cake and I say, Oh, are you hungry? What kind of food? Which one of these do you want to eat? What, what do you grab.

Katie (08:33):


Natasha (08:34):

Yeah. Why?

Katie (08:36):

Because I really like them.

Natasha (08:38):

How do you know? You really liked them?

Katie (08:43):

Because I enjoy them when I need them. I've had them before and it's been good.

Natasha (08:46):

Yeah. So you are making a decision based on your past memory, teaching you and telling you in any future moment. Take that option. Cause it's a good one. Now God knows who were insulting, but someone cooked you a shitty chocolate cake somewhere along the line. And you learned that ain't good shit. Now you agree. If I knock you over on the head and you wake up and you have amnesia, you have no idea that your name, Katie, you have no idea. How about you? I have no idea or anything and I present you a chocolate cake. And Crips do you think you have got a 50, 50 chance of grabbing one or the other because you literally have no, it's literally just going to be based on your actual experience with reality and self, the chocolate cake looked beautiful and the crisps and to be fair crisps probably don't look that fancy. Would you agree someone with amnesia will probably choose the chocolate cake and give that a go. Cause I have no idea which one is going to be, but that's interesting. Great. Okay. So we make decisions in the present based on what our brain tells us about these things. And our brain can only tell us about these things based on what happened in the past. So like I said, we don't need to know why your brain says Jasper could die. I'm assuming it's, if you're feeling nervousness, it's could die, could get hurt that something uncertain could happen, bad things could happen. Whatever the pattern is. You've got that. When I say Jasper again, if I hit you over the head with a, um, a and you became amnesia become, I give you amnesia again, you most, you either will go. You most likely would go. I don't want to ride a horse. Cause you don't know if you can. Um, but maybe the, the, you know, the bit that isn't based on memory, you're like one of those things they look cool. Can I go? And Pat them and you'll instantly be drawn to them. Not based on a memory that they good, but based on just who you are, that's a good, you know, and then you're going to build new memories. You're going to start riding and you're going to go, Oh, this is fun. Or this is fit. So this feels great. Or this feels out of control. I don't like this. You're going to get, you know, create new neural pathways and new understandings of what riding is, great with me so far.

Katie (11:18):

Yep, Sure.

Natasha (11:18):

Okay. So I, now all we've got to do is rewire right now your brain says Jasper is dangerous or Jesper. Is that like, do you know which one it is? What's what is the, what is the code?

Katie (11:30):

Let's say dangerous. Cause he is not bad. He's kind, he's easy. Like this is my problem.

Natasha (11:36):

Yep. So Jasper is dangerous. Okay. And how would you want it to be? What do you want to believe about the experience?

Katie (11:45):

The reality that he's kind and easy and I've got this and it's fun and I'm relaxed and when I'm relaxed, he's relaxed and it's all great.

Natasha (11:57):

Great. Great. Okay, cool. Um, so normally then your Brian just doesn't run like a little pattern. Like Jasper is dangerous. Normally comes with some kind of picture or some kind of video or some kind of other stuff going on. Do you know what your brain does to tell you that this is a certain experience?

Katie (12:27):

I don't, to be honest, I really don't. When I get on here, I envisage the absolute perfect drive every time and it pretty much is perfect until it goes off.

Natasha (12:40):

Yup. So in order for you to get to the next day, do you need to become more aware of what your brain is doing in order for you to feel 90% confident you can be planning the perfect ride, but there half there would have to be in that. And is it a video that you show yourself or is it pictures,

Katie (13:07):


Natasha (13:09):

good. In order for you to feel 90% confident there's going to be a black spot or there's going to be something that tells you something might happen.

Katie (13:25):

I guess it's that moment where he just drops behind the contact and stop stops going forward. It's more of a feeling, but I can see it as well. If I look for it, I can see.

Natasha (13:36):

Yeah. Okay. So when you get that feeling and that's, that's what I said at the very start of this call, I said, so you don't have a problem until this happens. And you said, no, I do have a problem because I'm 90%. So it either is, or it isn't, if you can go, well, I can cope with the 90% then that's fine. But I feel the reason you feel the 90% is because you're waiting for the shoe to drop.

Katie (13:58):

Yes. Yeah, yeah, exactly.

Natasha (14:00):

Yep. But your brain knows that it has to wait for the shoe to drop. And the only way it knows that is if you're coding it that way, like I said, the video has to have a bit where you, the video stops, that's where the anxiety comes from, because why is the video paused? Or why is there? I can't see that because if you could literally see the perfect ride from start to finish, you would feel a hundred percent. So there's got to be a little matrix glitch or something in there. That's the first bit would you have to get rid of it. You have to be like, I see the perfect ride. I see me get on. I see me walk. I see me trot. I see me canter. I see me smile. I see me get off. Like, and that's the ride. And so as I'm talking to you, do you think that there is a little bit that is missing that?

Katie (14:51):

Yeah. I mean the must be like you say the absolute, he must be. That's what I see before I get on there. I guess I'm triggered by all the ridiculous things. Like he's, like you said, so if it's windy, I'm waiting for it. If the chickens are running all over the arena, I'm waiting for it.

Natasha (15:07):

Okay. So let's go back to that's the 90, let's go back to the big problem when there is a problem. So when, um, how did you know that? Um, that feeling meant something bad?

Katie (15:27):

I don't and I'm trying to make it mean something good. As you say, it means both all the time. Doesn't it? Maybe it is excitement, But I'm not sure how I know it's bad. I mean, it happens before. I guess it's happened before I pull it off, but I've riden a lot more time to not pull it off.

Natasha (15:51):

Okay. So you have fallen off him?

Katie (15:55):

No, him, I mean, this is the others,

Natasha (15:57):

but it doesn't matter. So if it's windy and the chickens are on the arena, you'll still ride the other three.

Katie (16:03):

Yeah. Yeah, sure. I mean, I was still ride him, but I'll just be terrified.

Natasha (16:06):

Yeah. But you will not even be thinking of the chickens on the other three and not be feeling anything different. Yeah. Yeah. I love your brain. It's so cool.

Katie (16:17):

I'm glad you think so.

Natasha (16:21):

Well, it's just, you've just got to figure it out. You've just got to go. How I'm. So like when you put your foot in the stirrup on the other ones, you have to be like, what am I showing myself? What am I telling myself? What am I hearing? What am I noticing? What am I filtering? It's it's you've got, and you've got to love your brain. You've got to love that part of you because it's like, I get that. You're looking after me here. I get that your being awesome right now, trying to keep me safe. I just don't get it. So I'm going to, and it's, and it know, that's what I would say to my brain. And I'd be like, so I'm going to play spot the difference because I'm very, very clear. I like I'm on a Bay, you've got a horse, you've got a bay horse that you're happy to ride in the wind in the, um, that you have at your brain, which you have fallen off and you don't feel any. And you've got a bay that you have not fallen off, um, that is going to be riden in the same condition. But you've just, your brain says, this is a dangerous situation. Yeah. Yeah. So it's literally like at case. So do you reckon you could get up both of those pitches for me right now? You can close your eyes if you want.

Katie (17:29):

Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

Natasha (17:32):

So close your eyes and bring up the good Bay first. Oh, sorry. The naughty Bay that got you off, but, um, that you feel awesome on.

Katie (17:40):


Natasha (17:41):

Okay. And now bring up Jasper and tell me what looks different.

Katie (17:49):

I'm a lot higher on Jesper.

Natasha (17:52):


Katie (17:54):

And there is a, there's a lot more power. The naughty Bay is tiny and he's quite ease, quite huge. But for me, I'm a small person.

Natasha (18:06):

and there's no power at the hind legs. Like doing nothing on this tiny little horse on the little one.

Katie (18:12):

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, he's, he's a little racehorse and so she just kind of sprinkles along. So there's a lot of power, but it feels very different.

Natasha (18:20):

Yeah. Okay. So there's a feeling that's different. Yeah. And there's a, there's a, there's a height difference. What else? What else is different? Are they both in color?

Katie (18:30):

Yeah. Yeah. Both in colour.

Natasha (18:31):

Do they both have a frame around it?

Katie (18:33):

No framework around either.

Natasha (18:35):

Yep. Um, do, does one go faster than the other?

Katie (18:43):

Uh, the little one goes faster, but I think because she moves in a very different way. Like she kind of squiggles along quicker. So we've, we'd going into faster.

Natasha (18:53):

Any noises that are important with any of the pitches.

Katie (18:58):

Yeah. I'd say the tree, the trees are always crackling the bottom. Like they Creek, as you go faster, the chickens are shouting.

Natasha (19:06):

and that's in both pitches.

Katie (19:08):

Yeah. Both. It is quite well. It's quite quiet. But when I'm riding is.

Natasha (19:11):

and what are you telling yourself when you're riding the tiny horse?

Katie (19:19):

Mmm. So usually we are at school, I'm just warming up with her, so she she's race horse, so she's going to go out galloping and I'm thinking, okay, we're going to get out of his shoes. Like when did he done his hair? And then we can go, go and do something else. Yeah. I'm gonna, I really want to dressage with him. So we're, we're in practicing. Um, and I'm kind of thinking, okay, what, what are we doing next? What's next one.

Natasha (19:47):

Yup. Okay. You can open your eyes. What's your goal with Jasper.

Katie (19:56):

to be really good at dressage.

Natasha (19:59):

And you go with the tiny one.

Katie (20:02):

to win a race for that. So that's, I'll just try now,

Natasha (20:10):

what is, this is nothing to do with fear and everything to do with the expectation that you have of yourself.

Katie (20:16):

So yeah, that would make a lot of sense. And that would really be it.

Natasha (20:24):

Is it okay if you totally fuck Jesper up? Like you fuck up the training? Not it's not. Okay. What about if the fucker, is it okay to fuck up the training on tiny on that little, on the other one? Not really, but if not, it's not a tie to fuck up any of them, but if you were to fuck up one, I'm a fairy godmother and I, you can fuck up one. Which one do you fuck up?

Katie (20:55):

That's be hard. That would be a real hard call. And this might be it. Sorry, say that again. Like I'm not a fucking up person this day.

Natasha (21:07):

Yeah. I was going to say so like I was going to say, what's your job? Is this your job?

Katie (21:11):

No, no. It was my job for a lot of years, but I'm a nurse now.

Natasha (21:16):

Hmm. I'm so glad your personalities go into nursing. Don't fuck up the drug dose. Yeah. You don't want me as a nurse? Let me tell you that. I didn't think it was that important. Yeah. Okay. So you seek out opportunities to have to be perfect. Yep. Yep. Cause in your profession, if you're not perfect, someone could die.

Katie (21:51):

Yeah, exactly.

Natasha (21:52):

Yep. Do you like that? Do you, and I think you get a lot of like that lights you up is that right? Is it's pressure or, um, uh, expectation that you like, you bring me, I think you can sense that you should have that responsibility. Don't give it to Natasha things could go wrong. Give it to me. I'll make sure things are okay. Yeah. So then when you were on him Jasper and you don't know what you should do or, um, uh, yet you get to a point in the training, which every human being goes through and there's like, Ooh, should I kick it? Should I go back to walk? Should I, yeah, whatever the question becomes, what terrifies you more than anything is choosing wrong and getting it wrong.

Katie (22:42):

Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I think that's it. Okay.

Natasha (22:49):

I mean, having that, you're getting it wrong all the time. What would it take to give yourself the permission to explore and learn and play and, and just enjoy the process completely opposite of work. Do not take anything of what we're going to put into riding into work. Like it's just, just, just shocking. So everything about what we're talking about is so awesome for that job because you come up and play with medical doses and you can't just go to see what the day brings. You know, maybe it's just none of that in that place, but in this place it needs your personality completely transformed.

Katie (23:46):

Yeah. Yeah. It really does. It really does. I guess, give me the mission to do that is knowing it would get me to the end point or being better.

Natasha (23:59):

Do you, you obviously have a lot of confidence in your skill to be able to train horses to race. Is that correct?

Katie (24:07):

Oh yeah. Yeah, absolutely. For that. Yes. Yeah.

Natasha (24:11):

Um, so yeah, like, so if I said, Oh, I think I've got this horse. I think it can run quick. Would you be like, send it to me? I'm really good at that. Yeah, sure. Wow. Okay. Yeah, I would, I would train the horse. I'd be like, Nope, no, medium caner is as fast as we go stop, slow down, slow down. I would be, I would definitely not try to get a horse to ride. So that's amazing. You've got a really good skill and a really good, and I assume that's just come from so many years, you understand the foundation and the training and the building blocks that you have to do to get to that end point.

Katie (24:51):

Yeah. It's just doing it. You know, like it's not special. If you do anything for the 25 years, you you're better at that when you start it to, right.

Natasha (24:59):

Yes. So tell me, how did you feel in your first year.

Katie (25:06):

of riding ?

Natasha (25:07):

when you're, cause you don't know how to train a race horse all this and they've screaming at you. Go go. And you're like, wow.

Katie (25:14):

I loved it. I mean, I was really young and I think that does make a bit of a difference. Is that yeah.

Natasha (25:21):

Okay. So what's made you now decide you want to become a dressage rider because you love it. Cause you like, when you talk about the race and you're like, I loved it. What about, tell me about dressage.

Katie (25:34):

Yeah. So I don't know if I love it because I haven't done it yet. Um, but the guy I got to help me start off Jesper is really, really experienced, amazing. They just printed thoroughbred and he said, he's, he's too slow. He won't do anything. He said, however, he moved beautifully. You said, why don't you do dressage? And I thought, yeah, that, that sounds like fun. In all honesty Tash. I've got no idea. I've never done it.

Natasha (26:03):

How do you know you even want to do it? It hasn't sounded so fun. Like so far.

Katie (26:10):

I don't know. I don't know this. I, you know, I haven't, but when, when it's going right, I enjoy it. I love the idea of going out. Although the thought of riding him with other horses completely, I mean just sends me into an absolute mess. So I don't know is the honest idea, but it's what I'm is what I'm thinking at the moment.

Natasha (26:31):

and why, how come it can't just be okay for you to it's thought. So you're saying the biggest fear comes when he backs off and he stops because now I'm pretty sure what goes through your head. Tell me what goes through your head.

Katie (26:47):

I think when they, I mean, I always say they're going forwards. They can't do anything too bad. Right? If they're going forwards and they buck, they're still going forward, you've missed it. You're going through, they go forwards. They're not going to stand up, but they're going forwards and they're shy. They're still going forward. Nothing happens. I think that feeling of backing up and almost just like, you know, jogging on the spot, you know, I'd love to serve as a PR, but it's not quite that good. You just backed off and there's nothing. There's nothing. If you're not going forward. Well, anything could happen is my feeling. I think so.

Natasha (27:22):

Remember at the start of this call, I was like, what scares you? Or like, I don't know. Yeah. Now do you know?

Katie (27:29):

Yeah. I'm getting that. Yeah.

Natasha (27:32):

So what would you say now? What's your modified answer? Like you said, it's not the fine, it's not your final answer. Lock it in. It's just, what's your modified answer.

Katie (27:40):

No, no. Going forward because it opens the possibility to something else happening.

Natasha (27:45):

What is that? Something else?

Katie (27:48):

Maybe, maybe a buck or a leap. I mean, he does leave a lot now I'm sitting here. I'm not on him. I'm like, it's not a problem when I'm on him. It is a problem. I don't like it, but well, it doesn't end. So,

Natasha (28:06):

But it's not like you're scared of a horse that bucks or scared of horse that leaps. So what is, what is if he bucks or if he likes, what is it that scares you?

Katie (28:19):

I get, I think it's falling off and fucking up.

Natasha (28:23):

Yeah. But you've fallen off before.

Katie (28:27):

Yeah. But I guess, you know, in your race, it's very different to, if you fall off, then if you pull off your race, you know, it's like game over. People fall off all the time. People don't tend to fall off troting down the center line in a dressage arena.

Natasha (28:44):

Do you just want to repeat what you just said so you can hear how illogical it sounds.

Katie (28:49):

Yeah. So it is a logical racing, I guess, falling off is, is par for the course. It happens all the time. It's not a big issue. I mean, I've gone to watch, dressage, to learn and to see about it. I haven't seen anyone. I don't want that to be thing.

Natasha (29:08):

Cause if it was you, what would that mean?

Katie (29:11):

I fucked up big time.

Natasha (29:16):

I can say that if I say Oh, okay. But it's because others didn't okay. Yeah. But when no one's watching you ride, you're still scared of fucking up.

Katie (29:31):

Yeah. That's true.

Natasha (29:48):

It's, it's really, I can't play with this hindering point too much because all of your job and because of, it's a really awesome skill to have this, this, this commitment to, I must know all the steps and I must, um, therefore execute those steps perfectly. Like there's a, there's a lot of merit in that. Um, the fact that you rode resources when you were young, um, and as you said, you just enjoyed probably the speed and the fun of it. And then you developed skill along the way. And I feel you've got so much permission in your racing world, as you said, everyone falls off. If I fall, if I don't fall off, I'm weird. So I better fall off. Um, yeah. Like I feel that your brain's doing that. Like the first thing you said to me on the call was like, I have fallen off all the time and I was like, wow. Like I wouldn't even like, like falling off for me is a big thing. I don't really want to fall off. I'm sure I've done it. Um, and it hurts. So not a fun thing, but you're like fall off all the time. Okay. Alright. Cause that's in the world. You're used to it. That's normal. Now you've decided for some reason that you, I would say that you have to enter this world. I feel that you don't think it's your choice. You're like, I have to, because my horse I've been told that my horse, well, you know, he's not gonna win you anything he's, he's slow. So what are we going to do with this horse? If we don't turn into a dressage, so the minute we have to do something, there's more pressure anyway. Yeah. Yeah. So I feel that you should definitely give yourself the permission to entertain the idea. There's five other things I could do with him. I could hunt him. I could sell him. I could try and make him into a showdown. I could do dressage. I could, um, just to have him as my trail ride horse, like give yourself permission to brainwave other things you could do with him. So you don't have to do this cause I'm sure he's lovely. And I'm sure he's amazing, but, and I'm sure he, he could be an amazing dressage but he's not totally. Yeah. If he doesn't go into the dressage Korea, he is not the first horse that was going to get a hundred percent. So it's like, okay, there's no pressure here. It's not like I'm doing the world a disservice by not bringing him to the dressage world because he was going to be the a hundred percent horse. So it's totally your choice. You do what you want when you want, how you want. And I just want, that's the first step that you need to be like, cool. Okay. Then it's like, once you've gone through that step, you might go. You're like, I really want to, I choose to do dressage with him. I want to do that. And then when you get to, there you go. Okay. So when you get to the backoff and the stop, yes. You're scared of falling off because no, Dre, you haven't seen a dressage, out to fall off. But secondly, I think there's something a bit before that, that you're not even scared of the falloff. And I think you say something to yourself that terrifies you. Do you think, you know what that is? Like, what do you make it mean when you're riding along and then he backs off and stops. What do you make that mean about your riding, your writing skill and your writing ability and that doesn't sit with you. You can't suck. You've found it. That which I love I've had the most fun playing with this because you don't have a riding fear at all. You have a no, not, not, not like a sucking fear. You literally need to go say hi, I'm Katie. I have a fear of sucking. And so this will show up in other areas of your life. For sure. Yeah. I would. I would think you're not going to like go to a well, you're definitely not going to go to a, make a chocolate cake anyway. But if there was a chance that you could suck at making chocolate cakes, you just wouldn't do it. so how many things in your experience and you not doing and not enjoying because there is a whole lot about there's yes. You have to be proficient and good. Please be a shit hot, awesome nurse. But when it's not life and death, which so many other things aren't, if you do choose to give yourself permission going actually really like sucking it at some stuff. Cause I, I, it's funny. And it's it's um, allows me to, you know, to grow and learn and play and all those kinds of things. Um, then there might be some more joy that you haven't been able to tap into before, but totally your choice. Um, and so then when it comes to this horse, you just need to rewire the brain. When he stops and backs off, you can't make it mean here he goes again. Cause I suck. Cause I can't ride dressage. Cause I don't know what I'm doing. Cause I'm giving him conflicting AIDS because I'm a, I'm a shit rider asked him, he's stopping and insert whatever you want it to make it mean that maybe you should put your hand forward and ride forward and who will go forward again? Because I love, as you said, Oh like the, uh, whatever you said, like the back in the shot, it doesn't matter. Cause they're still going forward. You'll actually be a key kkick arse dressage rider, our dried up, because we also have that rule. Our dressage horses also have to go forward. But within the Gates. Yeah, exactly. So there's, there's the shitty shot. Like, as you said, I'd like to say it's PF, but it's not PF. Okay. Then give me a forward shot. So you're going around. So let's say you try it, you get on him in your trot and he's going one, two, one, two, one, two, two, one two. The minute you feel that first shift, you know, like gear sticks, change that rod with music and he is ride with a metronome ride with something and right above the pace for a month. So the Cantor, he rocks into a beautiful Cantor one, two, three, one, two, three, one, two, three, right at a bit. One, two, three, one, two, three one two three one two three one two, three. And as you, you can add circles at the training tools at leg yield, but think as you go into the different exercises to up the, the tempo rather than, um, what always happens when you ask for more, they suck back and I can tell you as a dressage, I'll dry them sucking back. And that backing off is so normal. Especially if you ask them them to go into the contact and you just go, it's literally called. Have you heard, have you heard in the dressage terminology of riding the horse through.

Katie (37:12):


Natasha (37:12):

that's all it is. You put pressure on with the hands and they go and you ride them through it. You literally kick him and go go, but you don't really push the rinds. You just go, go and they go through it, lift their back. And there was dressage horse and you won't know what that is. Cause you've never felt it. He won't know what that is cause he's never done it. So you're going to completely suck at it. You're going to completely fuck it up. It's going to be fucking messy and that's okay if you want to play there. And if you go, no, it's not then sell him. Yes, because I definitely don't become a dress out. Draw it out because you're dressage a driver like their address, add riders, like the Charlotte and the Isabelle's are the worst that are like, Oh, I think maybe, maybe just now on maybe slightly getting the dressage thing. It's a life long journey of learning. Um, and, and it doesn't matter. Like I'm, I've been, I am the best rider I've ever been today. Like I'm so much better than I was a year ago. And I feel so much more behind than I did a year ago. Cause the more you learn, the more you go off. Yeah. I know nothing.

New Speaker (38:38):

That's true. I know that. Yeah. Yeah.

New Speaker (38:40):

When we were pony club as well, like I, like, I just remember like my horse was not on the bit and I was like, I'm pretty shit hot. I'm pretty good at it. And then they keep telling you you're on. It has to be through and it has to be connected. It has to be straight. And you're like, Ugh, I was good at that. So yeah. It's your choice. It's your choice. How you play this game of life. It's your choice, how you choose to experience it. But how you're choosing to experience it is what's got you to here because you are so scared of sucking. It's affecting it. And you haven't got that pressure on these other horses because you know, you won't suck because you know, you're good at training them to race, Any questions?

Katie (39:21):

That is 100% make sense.

Natasha (39:25):

So what are you going to do differently? Or what are you going to add? Or what are you going to do as a result of Today?

Katie (39:34):

What am I going to do the next time I get on? What am I going to tash?

Natasha (39:38):

Well, it's up to you, firstly, as I said, there's some questions you need to answer. Do you know what those questions are? No. Okay. So remember I said, firstly, come up with different things that Jasper could do. Yeah. Don't take on that. Other, I feel like that trainer saying he had to become a dressage horse. You just went and he's dressage horse. Like you just did it into your subconscious and that's not everything that he has to be. So firstly go through it and I would think hunting, you would enjoy.

Katie (40:11):

No, I did not go into hunting. Okay. He's not good at jumping tools to deserves. He's amazing. But he's quite slow in trail. Riding hacking is not an option, but I I'm choosing the dressage. I wouldn't begin to. Well, yeah, no.

Natasha (40:37):

So he's not going to be riden or you're you want to, and you choose playing the game of dressage, understanding that it's going to be more for your character building than anything else. Anyway. Yeah. You to learn dressage will be you to learn that it's okay to suck. And that there's enjoyment to be found at perhaps sucking a little bit less than you did a month ago. And that it's fun to be found in the sucking process and that the pressure has to disappear. The minute that pressure comes on, you have to release it. It's not real. Yeah. When you feel that thing, Oh God, I'm talking and fuck off. No one knows. I don't know how to do this. And I'm in quite enjoying learning. Thank you very much. It's like if anyone, um, and I feel like you haven't had that experience. If someone said, Hey, come over. We've got a new, um, Nintendo 64. Is that what they called? I don't know. Or a thingy thingy. Um, he, I have a game controller and you and I will play the game and what will happen? Cause I've never played these games before. I will probably like, I think it's a shooting game. So someone's going to come and shoot me and I'll be dead within five seconds. And the little five year olds or maybe not five ten-year-olds it'd be like, Oh you were so shit at this guy and you just die. And then I'll be like, Oh, well, well how do you shoot? What's this thing and what am I scared of the green man? And what's the point. And as I play in the afternoon, I'm going to last 10 seconds and 15 seconds. Um, if you want to be in that game and you're like, yeah, I just want to get better. Then that's what you want to do. And if you go, no, I don't want to pick up the Nintendo 64 because I'm not going to be able to get it. And the little ten-year-olds going to be better than me then do that. Choose that and go, I know who I am. I know what makes me happy. I know what lights me up in life. And it's fricking rocking at certain things. And that's why I'm choosing to do it, but owning it either way. So knowing has been really useful for you. Cause when you put your foot in the stereotype of Jasper, you going to know what the fear is and whether or not you want to solve that.

Katie (42:51):

Yes, I really do. And I'm confident now having thought about it, sat with it. It's my choice to do dressage. It's a choice and I want to make it fun.

Natasha (43:04):

Great. Then that's all you need. You're good to go. Because what's going to happen is when he stops in bed backs off and stops, your brain's going to go. You sat, this is shit you should be. And you're going to go stop. Like thank God the horses stopped. Cause everything just has to stop and think they there and go and rewire it. I'm glad he stopped. Cause this shows me that I've got to work on my through and work on what I'm doing, you know? And, and I'm thinking he's stopping. It's literally like, can you get a dressage lesson? Yeah, I've got the guy I suggest we do. It is amazing. He yelled at me all the time. I'm so, so lucky. And why did he tell you to do when the horse stops and backs up? So he always just says, you know, you've got to ride in forward, go forward. And you're good at that. I'm not good at that. I hate it. When they say ride more forward, I'm like, we're fine. Just as we are. Let's just keep this.

Katie (44:03):

He doesn't still dead. He's still just going full. It's got all that palace that's coming underneath you that's that's it. Unfortunately you don't get that moment of stationery. You get this moment, I've been growing about three hands and dropping completely behind the contact and just coming right up underneath.

Natasha (44:22):

that's okay. I mean the hind legs are meant to come under and if he's dropped behind the bit, that's fine. Cause that's the last bit of thoroughness. He's going to push it out.

Katie (44:30):

Yep. Yeah, we can do that.

Natasha (44:33):

Yeah. And, and, and go, thank God I can fit. If you can feel behind like come under, you're doing a great job. That's the whole point. So don't make, so you're going, I feel the Heimlich commander. I'm doing it wrong. You suck. No, I'm feeling the home. They come on. God. I'm almost there. If you change the wiring to your associate to I'm almost there. You'll be fine. Yeah. Cool. Can you please email me in a week and let me go.

Katie (45:00):

Yeah, of course I will. Thank you. I really can't. Thank you enough. It was fun. It was really good. I will let you know. Thank you very much.

Natasha (45:09):

Awesome. Have a good day. Bye bye.